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Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - Printable Version

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Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - Aviation QS - 20-01-2010 03:01 PM

I've been surprised that no one I know in the construction industry can answer this question so here goes. My neighbours want to build a rear extension. I have no objections to this but I want to be able to do the same in the next five years. So stay with me on this one and don't read more into the question than it says.

Background
For terraced houses the garden boundary line is a continuation of the party wall centreline - any disagreements so far?

The question
When one house wants to build a rear extension what should the position of the side walls be in relation to the existing garden boundary line?

Some possible answers
1 - The edge of the foundation will be on the boundary line
2 - The external wall face will be on the boundary line
3 - The centreline of the side wall can be a continuation of the party wall centreline

Which one is correct or is there another answer?


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - PeeBee - 20-01-2010 03:59 PM

Aviation QS - as you may gather in these situations, I know nothing... but I read the posts and look for 'holes' in the given info which, when filled, allow those who know better than I (not hard...) to give you a clearer and more concise answer.

So -

1. Where does your neighbour want to build to? The answer to this dictates whether or not it can be related directly to your own proposed extension.

2. Where would you want him to build to? Partly because of the above; but how he designs and builds the resultant extension may have a greater bearing.

If you can, scan a rough plan drawing and attach it here. Or photos.

Every little helps, as they say... Wink


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - Aviation QS - 20-01-2010 04:40 PM

Hmmm, good points.

1. Where does your neighbour want to build to?
I don't know yet as I stumbled across the Planning Application on the Local Authorities website when searching for something else. It's so new the LA hasn't posted the drawings yet. I get on well with the neighbours but rarely see them and only have eight weeks until approval is given. I'll attach drawings as soon as they appear.

2. Where would you [b]want him to build to?[/b]
I would like all of his foundations to be on his side of the boundary line OR to build a new party wall that I can use in the future as part of my extension (I do not know what the wall design would be to cater for this).

If you can, scan a rough plan drawing and attach it here.
As soon as the drawings appear I'll post them here, I can only take a photo in daylight so will have to wait until the weekend. The photo may be confusing as the existing garden wall centreline is a continuation of the party wall centre line, surely this is wrong, shouldn't the entire wall be on my neighbours side of the boundary line (the deeds show he is resonsible for maintaining the boundary therefore it's his wall therefore it should be on his land).

Drawings and photos to follow. Please watch this space.


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - PeeBee - 20-01-2010 05:34 PM

Hmmm...

So - your neighbour has put in a Planning Application, without consulting or advising you, and you have so far had no notification.

Canny neighbour, methinks... Rolleyes

Don't worry, the resident PWA experts will soon be giving you all forms of advice, I am sure. You might want to start the ball rolling yourself, by reading our favourite publication -

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/133214.pdf

- if you haven't already.

Keep us well in the loop with this one. Knowledge is King, as they say - and I'm sick of being a subject... Wink


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - Jonsoletrader - 20-01-2010 05:41 PM

Aviation QS, can I do a 50/50 or maybe call a friend? lol.


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - PeeBee - 20-01-2010 05:45 PM

Jonsoletrader Wrote:...or maybe call a friend? lol.

With your name, I'm surprised you have one... Wink


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - dunmaxtho - 21-01-2010 09:43 AM

Dear QS,

There are several aspects to your question which it's important to separate and I think I can itemise as follows:

Where is the Boundary?
Where is my neighbour allowed to build to?
If I want to build the same in the future what's the best thing to do?

The answer to the first question can really only be identified on site but let us assume that you and your neighbour agree to a common situation where the boundary line is infact exactly on the centre line of the party wall separating your two houses.

The Party Wall Act is quite explicit as to where your neighbour is allowed to build. If a garden wall exists that is built on the boundary line it is a "Party Fence Wall" and your neighbour may take this wall down and build his wall on the boundary. If there is no wall, (eg. if there is only a fence), he cannot build the wall on the boundary but musty build it entirely on his land. There are different points covering the position of foundations.

What you ought to do is really common sense. If you want to build the same in the future it seems sensible to allow (or ask, if this is not your neighbours original intention), for the wall to be built dead central to the boundary, (assuming this is in the position mentioned above), to ensure that the design and construction of the wall is such that it can be used by you in the future with the minimum of work, that it can function as a separating wall for building regulation purposes, whilst also acting as a external wall for your neighbour until then. This is likely to result in maximum space for both of you.

There are cost liability implications enshrined in the Act, and specific procedures to be followed to enable the Act. There will also be foundation/excavation work covered by the Act.

The work seems a very straightforward matter and the cheapest, less painful and most amicable way to proceed would be to get together with your neighour and agree what's to be done. There are various paths to this, with differing costs and degrees of professional involvement.

Hope that helps,

Yours

Duncan


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - Nicholas Chinn - 21-01-2010 03:16 PM

Background
For terraced houses the garden boundary line is a continuation of the party wall centreline - any disagreements so far?

Yes - unless the deeds show otherwise

The question
When one house wants to build a rear extension what should the position of the side walls be in relation to the existing garden boundary line?

Some possible answers


1 - The edge of the foundation will be on the boundary line
2 - The external wall face will be on the boundary line
3 - The centreline of the side wall can be a continuation of the party wall centreline

Which one is correct or is there another answer?



1 - No notice required under the Party Wall Act
2 - Your neighbour should serve a Line of Junction Notice under Section 1(5) of the PWA at least one month before commencing work
3 - Your neighbour should serve a Line of Junction Notice under Section 1(2) of the PWA at least one month before commencing work. This requires your consent within 14 days otherwise he can only build the external face of the wall up to the boundary as "2". Ordinary concrete footings may project across the boundary provided he compensates you for any damage.

Option 3 is the best if you are intending to build a similar extension in due course. When you do you will have to pay your neighbour half the cost of the wall at the market rate at that time.


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - juleshurley - 23-01-2010 01:37 PM

If your neighbour has had the drawings prepared and submitted without discussion with you, the architect would of positioned the ‘edge of foundation’ to the party line.

This is typical English attitude to prevent any liability of boundary issues; we simply live within our little patch, we will never cooperate with neighbours. I have seen many extensions and conservatories built with tiny gap between.

You could discuss this with your neighbour, and ask if he could have the plans changed to show the continuation of the party wall, but this can create a legal nightmare.

Unfortunately the basic principal of the English neighbour relationship is almost non-existent, and therefore actually ‘sharing’ something will have most people cringing.


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - Asbestos Consultants - 25-01-2010 09:57 AM

I agree with Duncan that it would be an idea to sit down with the neighbour and discuss the situation. But that might be awkward to bring up, as they didn't tell you their plans, you stumbled across them yourself!

Any visual plans been submitted yet?

Rob

_____
Asbestos Consultants, UK


RE: Domestic rear extensions and the existing garden boundary line - Mike N - 25-01-2010 07:54 PM

If this helps...

We own a line of 4 houses that we have just completed identical rear extensions on. The options of treating the build process as one was looked at in terms of ease and costs plus any future construction or legal issues if and when any of the properties were sold.

According to our advice, which was confirmed by local building control.

The foundations should not project over the boundary line, the design would be for an eccentric loading with the outer leaf of brick or block built on the edge of the concrete fill.

Despite having a party wall and / or existing terrace arrangement, the foundations and walls of any adjacent newly built extensions should be separated by a layer of expanded polystyrene to prevent any interaction between the structures.